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overheard, to a cell phone - I am the fountain of affection
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clauclauclaudia
clauclauclaudia
Claudia
Thu, Jan. 9th, 2003 04:41 pm
overheard, to a cell phone

"Because God punishes people who get like that, you know. That's why He did that to her."

Here I am, agnostic and in practical terms atheist, but there are still conceptions of God that I think have merit and use. This ain't one of them.

Current Mood: irritated irritated

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wcg
wcg
Bill the bold bosthoon
Thu, Jan. 9th, 2003 01:56 pm (UTC)

It's the kind of thoughtless, shortsighted statement that makes me wish, just for a moment, that I were a Jesuit standing near enough to whomever said it to be able to say "No, God didn't."

Of course, I can say it now without being a Jesuit too, but it'd be nice to have the roman collar and the skill to employ it. But I decided against the seminary long ago, with the help and influence of good Catholic girls.


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novalis
novalis
Dave "Novalis" Turner
Thu, Jan. 9th, 2003 05:41 pm (UTC)

In my experience, most of the people who say things like that are Protestant, rather than Catholic. American Catholics these days are much more politically liberal and interested in social justice than Protestants, on average. They're also far less into predestination and God's direct influence.


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rmd
rmd
regis
Thu, Jan. 9th, 2003 10:40 pm (UTC)

depends. most of the real holy rollers are protestant, but there are plenty of liberal protestants. don't tar them all with the same brush.


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clauclauclaudia
clauclauclaudia
Claudia
Fri, Jan. 10th, 2003 10:07 am (UTC)

I think Dave's main point, though, was that "God is punishing you" comes more often from Protestantism than from Catholicism. They might well reject the Jesuit as a dirty papist. ;-)


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wrog
wrog
wRog
Fri, Jan. 10th, 2003 07:36 pm (UTC)

Actually, the concept that you get punished during your lifetime for whatever bad things you do is straight out of Judaism, and that in fact that's the only notion of punishment they have. It took the Christians to invent the afterlife (and thence Heaven and Hell) as an attempt to explain the rather obvious problem of the observable punishments not being distributed the way one might expect from the Judaic Model.

It's also worth noting that the Catholic Church is in its way perhaps more fundamentalist than the first-wave Protestant churches (Lutheran, Calvinist/Puritan/Congregationalist, Anglican/Episcopal...) --- that's what the Counter-Reformation (the Spanish Inquisition, etc...) was all about, i.e., cleaning up their act and getting back to basics --- modulo some Small Disagreements about what was actually "fundamental".

And then you have the second-wave Protestant churches (Baptist, Mormon, Pentacostal, Adventist, RandomWhackjob) of the 1800s which are a uniquely American phenomenon. So you need to be careful which "Protestant" you're talking about...


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juliansinger
juliansinger
Kate
Fri, Jan. 10th, 2003 10:00 am (UTC)

I know a whole hell of a lot of conservative Catholics; they're the ones most hurt by the ongoing scandal, in many ways, because their whole lives are built around the church and now it's betrayed them.

I had a point here. Where was it?

Oh, just that I know liberal Catholics and liberal Protestants, and I don't know that I agree with your conclusion. Sure, if you're just paying attention to the Fundamentalists, Protestants are more conservative, but that's like telling someone to just pay attention to Opus Dei, over on the Catholic side.


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rmd
rmd
regis
Thu, Jan. 9th, 2003 10:40 pm (UTC)

feh.


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browngirl
browngirl
Ayesha
Fri, Jan. 10th, 2003 07:09 am (UTC)

Yay religion [misused] as social control.

Feh.


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liralen
liralen
Liralen Li
Fri, Jan. 10th, 2003 08:34 am (UTC)

You know, that's what Job's friends said to him... and God nearly went after them for saying it.

It was only Job daring to tell God not to that saved 'em.

It's amazing what some people decide to believe.

-- one of those ultra-liberal Protestents (United Church of Christ, which, as some folks say, just *looks* a little right of the Unitarians)


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