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prisoners died under interrogation - I am the fountain of affection
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clauclauclaudia
clauclauclaudia
Claudia
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 01:16 pm
prisoners died under interrogation

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=384604

This isn't in the US mainstream press, right? I couldn't find it at cnn.com, though I may not have used the right keywords.

We torture people. This is official policy: "stress and duress". And two prisoners died of homicide. And Bush, Jr.'s second-ever press conference felt scripted and fake and foolish and terrifying given the context. I feel like I've gotten stuck in a Bizzaro-verse. This is not my President, not my imminent war, not my world.

But apparently it is.

I've never felt so helpless before, about things that matter beyond my own personal sphere. I've called and written to my legislators as often in the past months as in the rest of my life put together. So. Helpless.

It's this haze of depression surrounding the rest of what I do right now. I know depression about something from depression that just is, and this is the former. And it permeates everything, a psychic grease slick I can't get free of.

What can we possibly do?

18CommentReplyShare

lothie
lothie
Ni Leannain
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 10:58 am (UTC)

Take comfort from the fact that every Pres that was elected in a year ending in zero either died in office or was assassinated?

OK, maybe that wouldn't change things at this point, I don't know.


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clauclauclaudia
clauclauclaudia
Claudia
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 11:32 am (UTC)

Well, until Reagan. Hinkley missed.

Not terribly cheering, though. While before the election I had greater confidence in Cheney, I don't now.


ReplyThread Parent
lothie
lothie
Ni Leannain
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 12:09 pm (UTC)

OK, but he ALMOST bought it.

Well, yeah, but MAYBE if Shrub gets shot, Cheney'll have a heart attack in shock, and then that puts...uh...oh shit, we're fucked no matter what, aren't we?

*sigh* OK, so much for trying to cheer things up.


ReplyThread Parent
firni
firni
Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 12:51 pm (UTC)

*cries*


ReplyThread Parent
lothie
lothie
Ni Leannain
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 01:01 pm (UTC)

Yeah. I know. This is how the citizens of Rome must have felt when Tiberius began the blood baths. And Rome had hundreds of years left before they finally fell.


ReplyThread Parent
wrog
wrog
wRog
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 06:46 pm (UTC)

Rome went up and down a lot; the late Republic had its share of bloodbaths, and there was a whole string of 2nd-century emperors who really had their act together. And if you count the eastern empire, Rome lasted well into the 1400s, though it probably wasn't a whole lot of fun once they finally went batshit-absolutist+Christian around 300 or so...

Nor is it clear how much the ordinary folks even noticed the transition to empire. Figure they were all happy the civil wars were over; so what if a bunch of random patricians were getting knocked off? Augustus was real careful to keep most of the Republican institutions and not accept any titles beyond "first citizen"; it's only when you took a close look and noticed that this one guy held 4 or 5 key jobs at the same time that you'd know something was amiss.

not that any of this makes me feel any better


ReplyThread Parent
lothie
lothie
Ni Leannain
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 07:28 pm (UTC)

True enough, though as I recall from my Roman History Class days, things were never really the same again AFTER the transition to empire, even when they were "up". But it's true that I was making a very simplistic comparison.


ReplyThread Parent
wrog
wrog
wRog
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 09:50 pm (UTC)

and if Shrub gets shot, then he becomes a martyr.

That would be just about the last thing we need . . .


ReplyThread Parent
lothie
lothie
Ni Leannain
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 10:10 pm (UTC)

Maybe not. Maybe all he'd be is dead.

Shit, is this a federal offense?


ReplyThread Parent
firni
firni
Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul
Sun, Mar. 9th, 2003 12:14 am (UTC)

Martyr, my ass...although it *would* be amusing for his corpse to become a cry for gun control.

Or would that be ironic?


ReplyThread Parent
firni
firni
Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 11:53 am (UTC)

I feel sick.

http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=6432&TagID=2

President Bush appeared to encourage extra-judicial solutions in his State of the Union address in January when he talked of al-Qa'ida members being arrested or meeting "a different fate". "Let's put it this way," he said in a tone that appalled many, "they are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies."


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clauclauclaudia
clauclauclaudia
Claudia
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 11:58 am (UTC)

Yes, precisely. Apparently a large part of the nation wants a bullying father-figure as a President, though. *sigh*

(That's the same exact article, BTW.)


ReplyThread Parent
firni
firni
Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 12:00 pm (UTC)

Oh, and from Mr. Cranky's review of "Gods and Generals":

The key figures in "Gods and Generals" are Lt. Col. Joshua Chamberlain
(Jeff Daniels) on the Union side and Robert E. Lee (Robert Duvall) and
Stonewall Jackson (Stephen Lang) on the Confederate side. Stonewall
gets the most screen time as he draws upon his blind religious
devotion to justify the slaughter of the enemy, and in some cases his
own men. Played with a steely, creepy certainty by Lang, we're
supposed to view the character as complex, but he's really just a dim-
witted asshole who relies on his imaginary benefactor in the sky to
justify his messianic quest to commit unspeakable crimes against
humanity. Thank God the American armed forces don't have to deal with
leaders like that anymore.


ReplyThread Parent
firni
firni
Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 11:56 am (UTC)

Oh, and the only U.S. media mentions I could find:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/04/international/asia/04AFGH.html?ex=1047358800&en=40ae959a20d49a78&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/05/terror.amnesty.internat/
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/05/detainee.homicides/index.html


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hauntmeister
hauntmeister
Andy
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 01:30 pm (UTC)

Yes...It's absolutely terrifying.

Bush Jr's administration has managed to turn the country around all right. He's turned us from being viewed sympathetically by the world when he came into office (and particularly just post 9/11) into being viewed as a worldwide bully with bloodlust.

He's disdainful and dismissive of worldwide protests, mocks the majority of Americans who voted against him, resentful of the fact that he's being held accountable for his actions.

The man makes me embarrassed to be an American. And terrified for the world.


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hammercock
hammercock
The Hebrew Hammercock
Sat, Mar. 8th, 2003 03:44 pm (UTC)

Truly, I am horrified, ashamed, and frightened that I might go out into the world, as an American, and think that people might think I agree with Bush's agenda simply because we share citizenship.

It does feel like the Bizarro-America. It feels so surreal..."this is not my beautiful house...this is not my beautiful wife..." I wish someone would -- could -- stop Bush's feverish warmonging. I am afraid to say how glad I would be to hear of the deaths or incapacitation of the key members of this administration. It'd probably get me a visit from the men in black.


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johnd
johnd
john
Mon, Mar. 10th, 2003 10:31 pm (UTC)

geesh, i guess i just expected something different in focus, they spent so many years listing the blowjobs in hopes of stealing the presidency from the democrats, then outright stealing it. for what? couldn't they have had a good goal in mind? imagine the effort it has taken in 2 years to destroy the economy, peace in the pacific rim, the middle east, europe, affirmative action, corporate accountability, and nato. in 2 years!!!. what will we have to show for it after 4?


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